Are there any future "like a tank" cars?

"EL_ULY" (uly) 11/12/2014 at 20:45 • Filed to: Car stuff for once at night

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Like Volvo 240's, old Mercedes-Benz diesels, 7.3 Power Stroke F250's, Nissan Tsuru, and others. Cars that just keep chugging forever.

Brian Silvestro > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:48

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I'm just waiting for the list of AMG cars you recommend to buy that won't break instantly

Bandit > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:49

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No. Too many computers, too much cost cutting, and too much complexity. (I hope I'm wrong)

EL_ULY > Brian Silvestro 11/12/2014 at 20:51

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lol, hand built only exists to raise the price :] My guesses would be maybe some TDI stuff and the classic eco box. But hoping OPPO knows a little more. I miss these legendary cars

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:51

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GM Fullsize

Brian Silvestro > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:51

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can i haz W140 S600

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:52

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GMT400 (88-2000 GM trucks)

EL_ULY > Bandit 11/12/2014 at 20:52

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not too complex honestly, but cost cutting is very true. Didn't even think about that, good input dude.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:55

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Fiesta? (Not the FiST, though).

RallyWrench > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:55

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Not on the level of those benchmarks, but I'd say the MBZ W210, BMW E39, Volvo S60/V70 and Mk4 VW TDIs & 2.0 gas are a good bet among relatively modern cars. I'd say I see more of that quartet just beat to shit & neglected but still truckin' than any others at this point. Unfortunately, cash for clunkers took a lot of the good older tanks out of the fleet.

Alex from Toronto > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:56

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79 series land cruiser, the most reliable thing money can buy.

Boxer_4 > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:57

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There's a guy with a 2007 Yaris with 0ver 500,000 miles on it. He's had to do some repairs since hitting 300,000 miles, but he claims that it's still running perfectly.

RallyWrench > Bandit 11/12/2014 at 20:57

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You are not wrong.

RallyWrench > Brian Silvestro 11/12/2014 at 20:58

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The W210 E55 is a good bet.

Manuél Ferrari > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 20:59

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E9X M3 :D

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 11/12/2014 at 21:00

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E9X M3 is the most reliable car ever made!

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:00

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MG's and Land Rover Discovery's. Oh who am I kidding....

My citroen won't start > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:02

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You don't get it over there in the US but the Fortuner is indestructible

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:02

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Early '00s Elantra. Couldn't kill mine, and I know many other people who had the same experience.

Manuél Ferrari > Bandit 11/12/2014 at 21:05

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Not all computerized systems break. Software engineering is just like mechanical engineering - it can be good or bad.

Look at all the well-built computerized systems that have been running for decades with little to no maintenance or repair. There are examples all over the place. The modern world would be imploding if all computerized systems broke all the time.

As a whole the computers in cars are a lot more reliable than the computers we use ourselves. The systems for cars are purpose-built to do one thing and do not interact with a ton of other computers over the Internet. Or at least that was the case. I do worry about the brand new cars that have extra (and useless) computerized shit thrown into them. Having closed systems for ABS, traction control, etc. is good. Adding Facebook and mobile hotspot to car is bad.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:05

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New Corolla's. As beige and boring as they are, they are ancient when it comes to simplicity and technology.

DoYouEvenShift > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:08

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Arben72 > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:15

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H6 subarus. I mean they'll leak oil but they'll run. That and Honda accords, someone I know has an 09 that's at 250k now and just had to replace the rear left caliber. Still on the original clutch.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > My citroen won't start 11/12/2014 at 21:15

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I can attest to this. I had the opportunity to drive my uncle's 2011 Fortuner SRV D4-D and it was awesome. It has 140k km on it and it feels like a brand new car. He's done just about everything: mudding, plowing through rivers, taken it to a mini-rally (in which most participants were SVT Raptors and the occasional Defender), and visited every major city in Colombia.

thebigbossyboss > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:16

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Ancient technology and built like a truck. Will run badly longer than most things will run. 10 years after the last one rolled off the line they remain ubiquitous. Just the other day I was 3rd in a line of 3 of these.

Steve in Manhattan > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:16

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My W124 300D was every bit as solid as the W123, but there was more to break. To my mind, that car was the last of the tank Mercedes. Today? You can still buy a nearly new Saab 9/5 (last of the breed) or maybe a Volvo S80, but the complexity of modern cars probably makes the 'tank' concept obsolete. There's the Tesla Model S, breaker of test equipment, but who knows what the long-term reliability will be?

Racescort666 > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:18

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Even as a diesel guy, I never thought the 7.3 Power Stroke was that great. Better than the GM 6.2 and 6.5 and certainly better than the 6.0 and 6.4 that came after it but couldn't hold a candle to the ISB/6BT. IMO, the ISB/6BT Rams with MT were always the way to go if you didn't care about things like interior quality given the time period. The caveat to any Cummins powered Ram with a stick is finding one. I'm convinced that every single one is still owned by the original owner.

I guess the thing about the 7.3 PS was that it was just the right combination of not shitty parts. Ford's automatics were always fairly good (compared to Dodge, anything is good) and they had better quality than Dodge for cabs and whatnot. I forget when they got rid of that twin I beam crap on their trucks but that was a deathtrap waiting to happen. I don't know if it was Ford's solution to worse handling than solid axle while maintaining a moderate level of complexity but I have never driven a Ford with that suspension that didn't absolutely suck. I will take a solid axle over that any day.

Also of note about the 7.3 PS, it didn't get "good" until the end of the 90s. While International was still dicking around with the IDI and HEUI system, Cummins had PLN direct injection on the 6BT then switched to electronic fuel injection in 98 and still managed to kick the shit out of them in the performance category. This probably had more to do with all of the Cummins engines being turbocharged which was only an option on the PS but still, power is power and the Cummins turbo is easier to service than the one on the PS.

Anyway, that was a huge long rant about nothing. As for future tanks, I'd throw in that the Duramax Chevy/GMC pickups are in there. That Allison transmission is a beast and the Duramax was more or less designed by Isuzu who has their act together when it comes to diesels. The first gen with that engine (starting in 2001 I think) was a huge improvement over the previous generation truck. IMO, GM has the best handling 3/4 ton/1 ton trucks so no complaints about independent suspension on that front.

Steve in Manhattan > Manuél Ferrari 11/12/2014 at 21:18

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Good points all.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:19

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Honda Civics. There are already 06+ civics with 200,000 miles out there. small displacement, with a relatively low rev range in daily use=reliable.

Same goes for most basic subarus. There's absolutely nothing to break!

Racescort666 > Manuél Ferrari 11/12/2014 at 21:23

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One of those examples landed on a comet today.

Manuél Ferrari > Steve in Manhattan 11/12/2014 at 21:27

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Thanks!

Racescort666 > ly2v8-Brian 11/12/2014 at 21:27

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I've always felt the later generations were such a huge improvement though. The engines and transmissions are definitely better.

Yes, I'm a bit of an LS fanboy but I know a ton of people that have these trucks and the biggest problems have been "well the fuel pump went out at 200k, time to drop the tank/lift the bed and swap it out. Also some weird electrical problems but nothing that would stop you from being mobile.

dogisbadob > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:32

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Any 90s Toyota

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Bandit 11/12/2014 at 21:36

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I'm afraid you are exactly right.

ly2v8-Brian > Racescort666 11/12/2014 at 21:36

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As someone that owns a GMT900 truck I will agree with you on that. BUT these trucks are tough. In my local area I see many of these that are the same age as me, the same can not be said of their Ford or Dodge competitors.

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:37

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Base Nissan Versa, no options. Nothing to break.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > dogisbadob 11/12/2014 at 21:40

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...or 80s, or 70s, or 2000s, or 2010s. for that matter

Funktheduck > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:49

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This will be an unpopular opinion and it's not tank like but will keep going forever: Toyota Corolla. My 2004 had just under 235K miles on the ODO. The guy at Autozone that seemed to be always there had a 98? that had 335K and he commuted 100 miles a day.

dogisbadob > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/12/2014 at 21:52

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Oh yeah, I love Toyota, and Toyota has always made good cars, but their earlier (pre-late-80s) cars were reliable but tin cans (like all old Japanese cars). And unfortunately they started cheapening their cars a bit. The 90s was the peak for Toyota, top of reliability, felt like a single piece.

The 97+ Camry generations definitely feel like a downgrade from the 92-96 (gen 3) years. The 97-01 (gen 4) is a cheapened version of the Gen 3.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > dogisbadob 11/12/2014 at 21:54

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Yeah, I agree with that. The 90s was when they got the right mix of everything. Personally, I prefer the 80s tin cans because they weighted less. They rust like crazy though.

wantafuncar > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 21:55

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Miata

I own dead car brands only > Steve in Manhattan 11/12/2014 at 22:08

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I have a 2011 Saab 9-5. Amazingly reliable. Built like a tank too. Nothing rattles.

EL_ULY > Brian Silvestro 11/12/2014 at 22:09

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all of them buddy :]

EL_ULY > dogisbadob 11/12/2014 at 22:10

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especially

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 11/12/2014 at 22:11

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soooo true! I-6 were legend

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 22:12

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I6? You must be thinking of the 74-1992 gen trucks. These trucks had the, also very durable, 4.3 V6.

Brian Silvestro > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 22:15

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Are those M120 engines really that good?

EL_ULY > My citroen won't start 11/12/2014 at 22:17

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I want one soooo bad.

EL_ULY > Boxer_4 11/12/2014 at 22:18

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hot damn! That is wild!

EL_ULY > Racescort666 11/12/2014 at 22:22

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Cumm8ns was beast also and that Allison trans is simply epic. Im basing the 7.3 but our fleet trucks for my dad's a/c company. All 10 are from 2000, and all running hella smooth way over 500k. None was had the engine torn or turbo work (besides some cracked hoses). Front end wears too quickly but solid all around. Some are on call running for over 24hrs by different guys during the summer.

EL_ULY > thebigbossyboss 11/12/2014 at 22:23

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Noted, that car was pretty solid if it was taken care of

EL_ULY > Steve in Manhattan 11/12/2014 at 22:25

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todays cars are not as complex as most people say, but moat seem to give up after that 120k shelf life hump

EL_ULY > Alex from Toronto 11/12/2014 at 22:26

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I believe you, what a beast

EL_ULY > RallyWrench 11/12/2014 at 22:27

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Pretty much perfect answers I think. CFC was really sad. I have blood on my hands during that. Worst one was an old XJS V12. I killed it, along with my auto enthusiasm

EL_ULY > Funktheduck 11/12/2014 at 22:28

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Not unpopular when reading the other choices

Steve in Manhattan > I own dead car brands only 11/12/2014 at 22:39

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I would totally buy one of the last manual 9-5s - it would be the most Jalop car ever.

Alex from Toronto > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 22:45

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Too bad we don't get them.

EL_ULY > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 11/12/2014 at 22:58

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I have very minimal knowledge on Subaru but the Civic thing I can confirm

EL_ULY > Arben72 11/12/2014 at 22:58

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Dang, that is high for an 09, niice. Second Subaru post. I need to study up on those

EL_ULY > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 11/12/2014 at 22:59

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no can can be beige or boring in my eyes but solid little eco cars they are for sure

EL_ULY > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/12/2014 at 23:00

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hmm, I need to read up on those. Very rad

EL_ULY > DoYouEvenShift 11/12/2014 at 23:01

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yes.. a lot!

EL_ULY > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 11/12/2014 at 23:01

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lol dork :]

EL_ULY > Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready 11/12/2014 at 23:03

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That's true. There are a bunch of Versa as taxis in Mexico DF, very high mileage and all city also.

Thought, as a employee at a Lotus dealer, simplicity is not a guarantee for things breaking lol.

EL_ULY > BaconSandwich is tasty. 11/12/2014 at 23:03

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I can see that. Many Focus taxis in the world running prettu much non stop

EL_ULY > Manuél Ferrari 11/12/2014 at 23:04

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agreed :]

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 11/12/2014 at 23:05

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my truck went to the dealer for a warranty claim only once. Beaides that, all basic maintenance.

EL_ULY > wantafuncar 11/12/2014 at 23:06

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default :]

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 11/12/2014 at 23:11

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my dad had a 90 Cheyenne with a I6, replaced the head at 500k+ but that was pretty much it

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:11

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210's and 202's! My wife's wagon has 190k and is fantastic, she always calls ita tank. My e430 has 180k and is practically brand new inside, also runs and drives great. Sold my 202 with 190k and its great as well despite being badly neglected for a few years. Parts manager at one of our sister stores drives a 202 that he bought new, has over 300k but looks showroom fresh. Maybe211's with the OM648, if owners stay on top of all the little repairs, drivetrain at least is solid. I would say any Mercedes with the 112/113 engines could has a chance at 3-400k plus miles.

90's Buick's with the 3800, not supercharged. As long as the transmission is serviced regularly.

How picky are we getting with maintenance and repairs here? Technically you could keep any car on the road indefinitely with an infinite supply of parts and money. That's all I'm going to offer up, because I don't know enough about other cars anymore.

Racescort666 > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:11

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I will agree to that. I think 2000 was the last year of the 7.3 PS and it definitely got progressively better up to that point. Essentially emissions killed that engine because it was still a 2 valve in 2000 while the Duramax was newly designed as a 4 valve and Cummins had switched to 4 valve 2 years earlier. Basically a decision had to be made whether to update the 7.3 for emissions (which was going to require going to 4 valves/cylinder) or just design a new engine. International chose the latter and the rest is history.

EL_ULY > Racescort666 11/12/2014 at 23:14

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wow, didn't know that. Speaking of emissions, this trucks ran kickass with Mexico's diesel. Easily 22 mpg and much more huevos. A new truck would die using their jungle juice

EL_ULY > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/12/2014 at 23:16

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exactly sir, I don't have to tell you. Agree on the 3800 also. As for the "rules", it is mostly those cars that never or only maybe once have some type of major engine things like a head or valve work.

Manuél Ferrari > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:27

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Whoo hoo!

I think I'm gonna keep mine forever. Yes it drinks lots of gas but it just keeps on working!

LCI E9X M3 FTW!

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:32

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Oh, I get it. This is probably a south of the border variant. Because the ones in the States haven't had an inline 6 since the 80's. Brazil for example had an I6 til 2001, I'm guessing that all the way up to Mexico had them. Kind of like how Mexico still gets a truck called Cheyenne.

EL_ULY > Manuél Ferrari 11/12/2014 at 23:33

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d'awww I miss my 3 liter heater :'(

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 11/12/2014 at 23:39

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it is very possible lol. And the Fords are Lobo. They didn't sell Super Duty trucks until the late 2000's. We took one of our fleet F250 down there in 2002ish and stopped for fuel and food. When we came out there was a small crowd of guys looking at it. They were like, "tu Lobo es de diesel? " They were all psyched lol. But yip Cheyenne and Lobos :] The 5.3 never gave me any trouble.

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:42

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Lobo is a good name for a truck.

And my 4.8l runs smooth as silk.

Manuél Ferrari > EL_ULY 11/12/2014 at 23:42

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it's so purdy. wish you still had it :(

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > EL_ULY 11/13/2014 at 00:21

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Maybe engine or transmission work? Lots of GM things fall into this category, but the bodies will fall to pieces around 200k usually. Great topic, but such an objective and grey area.

EL_ULY > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/13/2014 at 00:26

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a grey area in the details but there was obvious modern choices

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > EL_ULY 11/13/2014 at 01:03

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Definitely. I tend to pay too much attention to detail where it really makes no difference. Although sometimes that makes it really easy to win arguments with the wife :)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > EL_ULY 11/13/2014 at 17:25

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I think you are onto something here - is there anyone out there that collects stats on how reliable vehicles are over the long-run? I realize there are surveys and whatnot for fairly new cars, but how about ones that are 3+ years old?

Enginerrrrrrrrr > EL_ULY 11/14/2014 at 18:28

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My 2000 accord is a beast. I'm past 170K with zero repairs beyond normal maintenance (a couple of belts and spark plugs). I can't see it ever biting the dust. Also I am not nice to it (moreso in the last year or two...). I also see them everywhere. I've put my key in the wrong car many times. How many cars made in 2000 do you still see on the road? (I've noticed the only dodge cars I see from that year look like they will die at any second)

Also, honorable mention to it being great in snow. Never stuck once in the many Colorado winters I've endured (and was forced to drive through).

EL_ULY > Enginerrrrrrrrr 11/14/2014 at 18:40

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3rd equal era Accoed I think mentioned. Bonus for the snow abilities